Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Foreign.
Hey guys, welcome to the camp, guys. Today on this episode, we're going to take a caller, a man named Tom Dixon. He's in Raleigh, North Carolina. He serves as a, on a board there and with a camp ministry. And if you're on a board or your staff, listen very carefully and I think you're going to see a couple nuggets. For me, it was his excitement to be a board member, man, he, he might as well be on a summer, he might as well be on a camp staff. He's so excited about camp ministry.
So board members excited. If they're not excited, are you, are you giving them the right details to be excited? And I think the one thing that meant a lot to me from this conversation is connect the why. So listen up and see if you can catch the why.
Hey guys, today we have Tom Dixon. Tom's been in camp ministry. Tom, say hello to everybody. Hey Tom.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Hey guys, how's it going?
[00:01:28] Speaker B: They all said it's going great. They all said it's great. Going great. So today we're just going to have a conversation about camp ministry. Tom, where are you from?
[00:01:37] Speaker A: So from the, originally from the Pittsboro area but you know, now reside in Raleigh after going to NC State.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: Oh, go dogs, man. Yeah, my daughter.
[00:01:51] Speaker A: Go wolf pack there, so absolutely.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Oh yeah, I said go dogs. It's not dogs.
[00:01:56] Speaker A: Yeah, my bad, my bad. That's a little Georgia. All the Georgia people are like, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: That's fun, right?
[00:02:06] Speaker A: So okay, so you're, I wish we had a program like the, like Georgia, you know, as far as football program like Georgia. But unfortunately, you know, we're, you know, we're doing all right. Yeah. So far this season.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: So Tom, what's your background in camp ministry? How can, how can you give, how, how can the listeners listening kind of perk up and say, hey, I need to listen this guy. What, what, what have you done in camp ministry?
[00:02:29] Speaker A: Well, I got started and first was impacted as a camper back in 1993.
So I don' old a lot of your listeners are, but probably before they were born.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: You sound pretty young.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: But I, yeah, but I, I love camp ministry because it meant a lot to me. I grew up in a Christian home and you know, you know, very much self considered myself a Christian, had, had, you know, heard the gospel. But it wasn't until I went to camp and got to experience the gospel that, that was just it, just it, you know, doing stuff as a kid, especially as a, as a, as a boy, you know, doing Doing stuff and then seeing it kind of connect together and how everything, you know, works is just key. And so it just impacted my life.
Yeah. You know, from a young age.
[00:03:28] Speaker B: Yeah. So let me. Let me ask you a question about that. Let me ask you a question about that. Why do you think camp. Why do you think camp opens your heart like that? What. What made camp so special?
You know, again, I know. The Holy Spirit. Okay, the Holy Spirit. Change. Change you. But what was that? What was the elements of camp that inspired you to open your heart and to pursue that change?
[00:03:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's really simple. I think, you know, that. That getting away from your kind of typical day to day.
[00:04:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: You know, is key in a different area, in an area that's beautiful. That kind of connect to. To God's creation.
You know, one, two is just having a staff. You know, most camp staffs are, you know, made up of college kids. And so, you know, if you grew up in the church, like most your, you know, kind of children's ministry leaders or, you know, adults or, you know, whatever, but then you get into not saying that college kids aren't adults, but, you know, they're a bit more relatable. And to see kids, you know, or college, you know, people living out the faith, it just, it kind of, you know, that I was like, that's what the walk looks like that, you know, like, you know, everyone else, it's like, oh, that's like your parents or, you know, whatever. But, you know, when it's motivation relatable, it just makes it, you know, it just makes it more on your level, you know, and so those two things along with, you know, I think camp does a good job of weaving in, you know, like, you're not just doing a low ropes activity, you know, like climbing a wall and getting, you know, everybody over, you know, the, you know, we have a wall called the Beast or whatever. Or you're not just doing trust falls just to do trust all we'll take a moment and say, okay, hey, what was. What worked there? What was. What was easy about that? What was hard about that as a team, as an individual. And then how can we relate some of the things that we, you know, come out of that talk about? How can we relate that to our spiritual walk?
[00:05:34] Speaker B: Yeah, Intentional programming.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: That's when it started to, like, click, right?
And it was, you know, overcoming fears of different things that you've never done before.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: And, you know, being able to rely on God.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: This is a huge testimony for all the camp leaders listening out there of intentional program really, really works. If you're not teaching intentional programming here you talk to getting the testimony of somebody that went through intentional programming and it worked on changing his life. We've got to make sure that stays in front of our staff. Intentional programming is why we do what we do. It's not because we got the beast wall, it's the intentional program that we can do while they' doing the beast wall. So that's, that's really cool man. That's really cool.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean whether it's a quick prayer before you jump off the zip line, you know, and learning to truly trust God in those moments, you know, like it's, it's, you know, it's all those things, you know, that, that add up that just make a huge, huge difference in these kids lives. Yeah, sure.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: So what areas do you work in camp now?
[00:06:37] Speaker A: So I currently serve on a board of directors and have now for 20 plus years. I kind of came right off of staff.
I became a counselor and an admin back in the late 90s, early 2000s and then kind of very quickly after that became a board member to give the board a little bit more of a touch of what happens during the day to day of camp. Sometimes boards can get far removed from the programming and things they make decisions of like where to put a dock because you know, oh, the fishing is going to be better there. Well, you know, we don't even do fishing really as a major rotation. It can't. Why are we changing, you know, stuff just because of that, you know. You know, so I was able to be brought on at a pretty young age to serve and just kind of be that voice for camp.
Say that again.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: What size is the camp you serve on the board at? How many they run per week?
[00:07:42] Speaker A: I serve on the board of directors of Camp Oak Hill which is in Oxford, North Carolina.
And we back in the 90s and everything would run close to a thousand kids a summer through there. So we can sleep roughly about you know, 200 and 200, 250, you know. But now due to, you know, year round programming for our year round schools and you know, a lot of different competing things. Just the way culture has changed, you know, we're seeing, you know, less and less numbers for that kind of traditional camp experience, if you will, summer camp experience, but still serving, you know, between you know, camp and retreats serve you know, thousands a year, you know, with retreats. But during the summer I think we're, we're right around that 600 mark during the summer.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: Okay, now, so do you feel like, I know you're probably in the area where there's a lot of schools because if you say Raleigh, that's a big area in North Carolina, do you feel like.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:59] Speaker B: Do you feel like majority of school systems are going to year round which is cutting down weeks in summer?
[00:09:05] Speaker A: Well, it did. So it did.
We are actually seeing a trend of a couple of schools just here recently changing back to traditional calendar. So we're hopeful, you know what, you know, they first brought in to say, oh, we can use more resources, you know, we can use the school more and fit more kids through and whatever. I think now that they've been at it for a while, they're not seeing quite the payoff that they thought it was going to. So hoping that we're seeing a trend going back the other way.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: But you know, definitely, you know, here in more of the, the city of Raleigh and everything that you know, or the, the year round schools definitely, you know, make an impact in, you know, what you're summer numbers look like.
[00:09:52] Speaker B: Yeah. As a board member, what are you seeing camp summer camps roadblocks be not just yours specifically, but what do you see some roadblocks being for camp ministries right now?
[00:10:06] Speaker A: Well, because of, at least in our area, because of these year round schools, what has come of that is everybody and their brother, business wise here in and around the area has some sort of day camp option now because they have to fill these gaps in the middle of the year, you know, so your local skating rink now has a rink rats thing and you know, whatever, or even your like little bakery will have like a bake with me week or something, you know, so there's a lot more competition for like the day camp side, you know, and when you add on top of that the type of parents that are coming up, which are more of those kind of helicopter type parents that are afraid to let the kids kind of go for the week, you know, and not see them, you know, at night or whatever. Like, you know, more parents are opting for that day camp option, you know, and unfortunately we're in an area that, you know, you're not doing a day camp up to Oxford, you know, from the Raleigh area per se, you know what I mean? So.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:13] Speaker A: But yeah, definitely has impacted, you know, our numbers quite a bit. But also I think a huge challenge is staffing, finding qualified young people that want to invest in the next generation, you know, with all the other things that are competing for their time, you know, whether it be, you know, internships or, you know, just regular everyday work stuff.
It's, you know, it's definitely hard to find qualified staff.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah, what we're doing here at Crowders campus is we're getting way away from the recruiting at local colleges and moving toward. Moving more towards the churches that have unique college ministries and recruiting there.
I think. I think it's almost like going to a place to look. Shop for. Shopping for shoes at Publix.
You know, Publix don't sell shoes, but there might be one pair somebody left there that's got holes in them. I'm not saying that staff person's got holes in them, but that's the way we feel going to some of these college campuses. Whenever it's literally shopping for tennis shoes at Publix, whenever you should go to shoe carnival, which is some of these great churches that have amazing college ministries and just set up a table there and just sit there and wait on somebody to have a passion to come by. I think you can get more quality shoes where they sell shoes.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Also, I mean, I think one of the things that we're trying to put an emphasis on and we see that is going into. To these churches, going into that have these college ministries, whether they're big or small, and. And having our camp director or executive director, you know, speak, give a. Let. Do the lesson for that, you know, like, kind of outside. So it gives them a chance to kind of, you know, hear, you know, kind of how, you know, the vibe of that camp director versus just setting up a table, you know, or whatever, which we have done before, like a little booth thing outside of, you know, their college ministry stuff. But, you know. Yeah, no, I agree with you. It's. It's a lot harder to do the, you know, the traditional college tour and. And be able to staff, you know, fully that way.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Yeah, you sound like you're very involved with the camp operations. How often do you guys meet as a board?
[00:13:37] Speaker A: As a board, we meet about six times a year, but then we also work and have committee meetings every month as well. So.
So I would. I would say, you know, total looking about 12 to 14 times a year in some sort of capacity. Right. Like, you know, like I said, not a full board meeting. Maybe it's a committee meeting, but, you know, at least once a month there's a touch. And, you know, I, you know, as a board member, you know, consider, you know, any good board member, I think, should really just be like the. The head cheerleader, you know, of the organization, you know, and, and so finding times to just go up and so I try to make it a point to go up to. To camp and serve during opening or a closing day, just to meet and greet families, just to meet the, you know, staff and encourage the staff because they are the hands and feet of ministry, you know, there. So, yeah, definitely try to have more touch bases than just, you know, a couple of board meetings a year, for sure.
[00:14:52] Speaker B: I know some boards, you know, they're set up for financial purposes. Hey, we got a bunch of givers on our board. Some boards are, you know, set up for encouragement and spiritual accountability.
You know, that's kind of the kind of way I, I feel like you are, you know, you're there for encouragement and spiritual accountability and not necessarily, hey, I'm here to give, you know, $2.3 million. I want to be on your board.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: But I think that's a great nugget for anybody listening to the podcast right now because, you know, inviting your board to opening day of camp to encourage staff, you know, I think that's so awesome, man.
I'm kind of like filling your heart through the phone. You sound like you're a huge supporter of the camp that you're a part of and they're lucky to have you.
[00:15:34] Speaker A: Well, I, I love, you know, again, it changed my life and so it is my hope that, you know, it can change others and wanting to see that ministry continue. And, you know, thankfully, we are getting ready to celebrate 50 years as a camping ministry, you know, next summer. So we're. We're excited about that for sure.
[00:15:57] Speaker B: Yeah. What. What would make.
And I wanted you to speak very broadly of this question, but what would make from a, from a staff's perspective, from a board, per board person's perspective, what can make a board member's job easier if the staff did X, what. What is something that you've seen over the years? You're like, you know what? This has make made a me being on the board a whole lot easier. You know, is it the financial reports? Is it. Is it more reports emailed? You know, what's something. Over the years, you're like, man, this has been a game changer and made my job being on my ministry by being on this board easier.
[00:16:36] Speaker A: I think just communication and, you know, financials are one thing. Like, yes, you have to do that. Like, but some of the best executive directors, because that's typically the voice that you hear as far as a board, you know, like, the board speaks as one to the E.D. e.D. Then kind of takes, you know, and is able to kind of, you know, carry out what the board's vision is throughout the staff.
Right. But the best EDS that we have had for camp are the ones that have continued to connect the why, the ones that have shared the impact.
Because that's why we're all doing this, right? Like, that's why we want to, you know, serve on this board. We're not just serving on this board. Yeah, I mean, I know some boards are more like appointed, you know, to look good in a community.
Our board is not like that. Our board is, you know, built of a group of individuals that have been impacted or their kids have been impacted by the ministry, by the camp. And you know, they just want to see that continue and want to see the vision and the mission continue.
Right. And so the, the camp staff or the, you know, executive directors that share like, hey, you know what?
You know, Emanuel came last week and came on scholarship.
Never stepped foot in a church before. But he rang the camp. He, he, he rang the bell because he came to know Christ. That, that, like that Thursday night, like that, that. Right.
You fired up to continue to do all, to look at all the other financial reports and to do all the other planning and the things like, you know, whatever. So like that, that I think is key is just sharing those impact stories of what camp is doing in these kids lives because it's sharing the why of why we exist.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome, man. That's awesome. What's one of the biggest and toughest decisions that you've been a part of as a board member?
What was this? What's the one thing is can you went home was like, man, I really got to pray about this.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: Oh, it was during COVID Oh yeah. When I think most of the people that listen to this. Right. Like the, like camp is built to gather people. And then we as a nation were told, you can't gather.
So how do we exist?
How do we survive as a camp, as a, as a, you know, as a ministry when you can't gather? And so we literally, I mean, we've had, we've had some hard times at camp. This is one of the harder ones where we had to literally lay off every single one of our staff. We tried to furlough them first and like, and here's the thing I love is that our staff was like, we don't care if you pay us, we just want to do the work. Because they believed in the ministry as well. But like, we couldn't physically have them work and not be paid or whatever. So we had to like, literally, as a board, take over the runnings of camp on a, you know, on a, on a small scale just to keep camp going and that seeing people that love the ministry, that gave blood, sweat and tears to, you know, to, to camp and to say like, sorry, we, we just, you can't go forward. Like, you gotta find something else like that. Yeah. Broke my heart.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: I asked you, I asked you that question. Thinking of probably something else, but you know, you were exactly right. I guarantee you, hundreds of people listen to this podcast would answer that question exactly same. What's the hardest decision you've got to do as a, as a camp leader is Covid for all of us. I actually kind of blocked that out.
Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about that. You and you, you nailed it on the head, so that's awesome. Well, man, listen, I mean, go ahead.
[00:20:46] Speaker A: On top of that, like, you know, it's also just, you know, like I mentioned, we're a 50 year old camp, you know, getting ready to celebrate 50 years, but we're essentially almost like a five year old camp.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:02] Speaker A: You know, just started over like, and I think camps are just, they're having to be completely rebuilt, you know, from know, staff wise, programs wise, everything. It's kind of, you know, everything's changed. And so, you know, trying to protect those traditions, trying to protect what, you know, what should still be done, what we should change up, giving the, you know, change in ministry these days. So the camp has been, has been very tough.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: The camp that you served, that you serve at, is it more of an individual based model or is it group based model?
Like you have a bunch of individuals coming to weeks of camp or do you have groups in the summer?
[00:21:40] Speaker A: Yeah, back, you know, when we got started in the 70s, 80s, 90s, you know, early 2000s, it was all individuals. It was all, you know, individuals signing up for summer camp, coming together, you know, living in cabins with complete strangers and leaving the weak family crying because, you know, like, the girls are crying because they're like, I don't want to go home, you know.
Yeah, that's right. And so, but, but now it's, it's kind of been supplemented with, you know, so we still have about five weeks of the summer that we hold for individuals that sign up. But then we've had to give some of these weeks to either different church groups or, you know, more specialized camps where they're kind of coming in and more group models.
And so we kind of Call those weeks our hybrid weeks where they're camp.
You know, they're still camp. Our staff is still running programs or, you know, our staff is still in the, you know, maybe in the cabins, you know, but, you know, they're, you know, some of the teaching or some of the things are run by the church portion of it or whatever the group that's coming. So everything changes depending upon the group. Yeah.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:22:57] Speaker A: But, yeah, so it's kind of a. I would say it's a hybrid now.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: For sure, I think. And some people may disagree, but I think coming off of COVID and everybody's seeing how the end of a lot of the individual programs were impacted because of COVID and parents have not. I mean, look at drive throughs. Nobody wants to go inside a store anymore. I mean, it's amazing how just Covid changed our culture of the way we live. But I think that, that doing a hybrid and individual weeks is a great financial model because typically the weeks you rent out to other ministries and churches, they, they typically don't decline. You know, they, they, they typically grow.
Because I just, I just think it's a great model. Oh. So let me ask you one last question. What do you think. What do you think as a board member who is, Whose life was impacted at camp, what do you think camp's going to look like in 10 years of.
Just give me a wild guess. What do you. That's because that's what we've been talking about on the season of the podcast. What do you personally, Tom, think that camp's going to look like in 10 years?
[00:24:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. Because I mean, us as a board are really, you know, you know, we're working on a strategic plan now for that same, you know, thing of building out a plan of what. What is Campo Kill going to look like in 10 years and 15 years, like, and, and trying to get, you know, the demographics of where you're at and how it's changing. And, you know, I definitely see, you know, if we wanted to, we could 100% make a larger impact by just accepting, you know, we're seeing such a huge demand for larger churches to bring their children's ministry in or to bring their youth group in and everything. And while we see that, yes, like, you can survive as a camp, you can do well financially as a camp there, and not saying that ministry does not happen. There are kids that, that come during those weeks that hear the gospel and are saved. And we, that's why we exist one way or the Other. That's why we, we, you know, we want to be, you know, who we are. But our heart is still to try to preserve a little bit of that individual camp week, you know, where you come together. You know, people sign up to, to bring back a little bit of that nostalgia. And I, you know, I hope that there's a, there's a resurgence of that. As you kind of hear all these podcasts, you know, that are all about the 90s and all about, you know, the, all these things that, you know, people like revisiting their, their nostalgia and nostalgia in and of itself is kind of a, a bit of a drug, you know, if you will these days for, for people and reliving those moments. Just hoping that, you know, I think, you know, we could potentially see a comeback of that individual kind of traditional summ experience.
Because parents that came up through that age, through that era want their kids to experience the same fun, same amazing time that they life changing moments that they had or whatever. And you know, and it's, it's just, it's different when you kind of come as a church group or it's different as you. If you come as just another kind of like retreat group versus kind of coming together like that traditional summer camp, you know, experience.
[00:26:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I think it's about who the camp is, if the individual portion of camp will continue because you have some camps that have been around, you know, years and years. Like you said, 50 year anniversary this summer. You guys have that impact.
Crowders camps, we're working on our 12th year. We don't have that impact. You know, Mama, mama, Mama and dad didn't come to camp here. So they're not saying, hey, I need to send them to Crowders camps this summer because I did it. But there's a lot of camps out there who have, have bookus of years on a mom and dad came to camp here and they will continue and thrive. I believe, I believe you spoke on a couple good points there. I believe the old school rock and roll camp will all will, will it will thrive. In 10 years, we're going to have to change a few things. We're going to have to trend up a few ways to be relevant. But most of camp's going to stay the same.
I lived in the cabin all week and I jumped in a lake.
That that concept's never going to change and it's always going to be huge to do.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: So before we go, got a lot of listeners listening to Tom. How can we pray for your board and your Camp.
[00:27:41] Speaker A: Just on that exact, you know, thing there, as far as, you know, just as we look to the. The future, you know, of camp, just what that, you know, looks like, you know, for us and. And how we, you know, what. What do we protect, you know, as a ministry to keep it, you know, where we feel like, you know, evangelizing is. Is being done to kids who are just completely even unchurched.
You know, how do we reach that community and evolve, you know, our programs, you know, just, you know, our. Our message, um, you know, over, you know, the next, you know, 10 years. So that would be, you know, definitely the biggest.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: Request that. And for our staff that just work so tirelessly. Like, I. I mean, I think, you know, I believe you're on, you know, staff with Crowders Camp there on the board there. I mean, you know, all too well the hours. So anyhow, definitely those two things.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, we got you, Tom. A lot of people's gonna be praying for you and your camp. Thank you, man, for calling in and talking to us on the podcast. You've been a true blessing. I hope for the listeners listening. That one you got a nugget from. From Tom's experience and. And. And. And. And position in camp ministry. But if you're on board somewhere, I hope you. You've heard Tom's passion, and I hope you can take that same passion back to your board and be an encouragement and example for the staff that you're serving there. Tom, thank you for being a part of camp, guys.
[00:29:17] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Looking forward to continuing to hear just great nuggets that y' all put out. And so thanks again for what you guys are doing, kind of giving that platform to people that are in the trenches and everything. For sure.
[00:29:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Thanks, Tom. Have a great day.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: Bye. Bye, Sam.
