[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Foreign.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Camp Guys podcast. I'm Jay Oliver, the executive director and founder of Crowders camps in Gastonia, North Carolina. And today we have again, Noah. Noah Oliver with us. He's our director of experience. And we also have Noah Carter on the the board over there recording this. So we're going to continue our conversation from season five, episode one to episode two. Now, I'm gonna give you guys seven categories that what's camp ministry gonna look like? What is the future of camp ministry? A ten year vision. Number one, Crowders camps. We're going to continue igniting sparks. We're going to be a camp of innovation in. In 1999 or 2025 or 2035.
Camp ministries always been more about more than just cabins, campfires and games. It's a sacred place where lives are transformed, leaders are formed, and the gospel comes alive with powerful ways. It comes alive at the Gaga ball pit, comes alive in your meeting spaces. But let's look ahead 10 years and just put this question before us. What will camp ministry look like in the future? And how can we prepare today to meet tomorrow's opportunities? So all you listeners out there, you need to email us podcastrowderscamps.com you can go on our social media platform routerscamps. You can tag and DM and do all kinds of stuff there. But send me what you think. Hey, tell Jay that's what you need to say.
[00:02:05] Speaker C: Tell Jay.
[00:02:05] Speaker A: Tell Jay. I think camp ministry in 10 years will be this. And it could be as simple as two words.
You don't have to write me a paragraph. You can just give me something that we can bring back to the show that, that hundreds of listeners can listen to and be fed. Because this podcast is all about being a resource. The ones that don't have resources. So this is what I'm gathering so far. These are the top seven things.
[00:02:30] Speaker C: The seven.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: The seven things. So number one, technology and digital integration. Okay, explain there's in 10 years from now and this summer, we're starting to see more and more of this generation becoming generation D. They're the digital generation.
They always have a screen in their hand, they always have an iPhone. They got headphones on when they're not even listening to nothing in their ears. They're a digital generation. I don't think no, camp ministry is not going all digital, but I do think there's relevance.
For example, I'm extremely proud of our 9 by 16 led wall that we have in our worship building. It's pretty nice and it relieved camp guys and gals. Listen to me. It relieves such a pressure for me. Instead of trying to keep up with the Joneses of production. Lights, moving lights and all this stuff. Criers Camps has a very basic lighting system, but that LED wall was worth every penny that I pay for it because let the graphics do the work.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: If we do a recap video, man, the wall looks like a regal cinema. It really does. It really does. It's beautiful. And for me, that propelled us big.
[00:03:46] Speaker C: Time in the perfect balance between the, The. The. The bougie churches.
[00:03:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:51] Speaker C: And then, you know, those that might say bougie churches. Bougie. Yeah, bougie.
And, you know, they got the nice lights, the led and, you know, really, really nice. The nice.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Sounds millions of dollars, right?
[00:04:02] Speaker C: Yeah. And nothing wrong with that.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: It's great.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: So technology wise, I feel like it set us really ahead a few years.
[00:04:10] Speaker C: That's great.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: But for other camps that are still on projectors.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Right.
[00:04:13] Speaker A: And transparency machines.
[00:04:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: You may want to adjust to that and be like, hey, let's start out with some 49955 inch TVs from Sam's.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: You know, there's ways. Well, Jay, we can't afford LED wall. Buy four TVs, you're still under $2,000. But yet you just started being relevant big time.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: Right.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: I actually attended a church that didn't have a projector screen anymore. They had two very large TVs on each side of the church. And it made it work. It was great. It's good. So there's ways around to get the crystal clear technology to work for you now that's going to get you ready, hopefully see you grow a couple years so you can afford LED walls.
[00:04:53] Speaker C: So you're seeing it just a constant improvement as you go. Yeah.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: When we had our tent at Criers Camps, we had literally TVs. Yeah. That's what we had. And now we have a beautiful LED wall and a nice.
[00:05:05] Speaker C: You just got to start somewhere.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: Yeah, you got to start somewhere. Are you moving towards 10 years from now or are you moving to close the door and turn in the keys? And that's what you need to ask yourself. Is your camp moving towards a success or they moving towards failure?
[00:05:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: And why, if you're part of the failure, if your board's a part of failure, then maybe you need to make an adjustment. But there's. There's ways that we could constantly, every day shoot for success. And as long as every day you're you're punching down some failure and making it a success in your ministry. Yeah. You're moving towards the right for sure.
[00:05:39] Speaker C: Would you say since we live in a very instant gratification world, you know, maybe there's some, you know, camps or even churches they're seeing, other churches, other camps have, you know, these big things. You know, they honestly have that comparison of, oh, man, this is that, you know, am I ever going to get to that point.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:56] Speaker C: Where they just needed, you know, just the slow grind.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Just be able to, you know, people preach against the comparison trap all the time. I'm okay with it. I'm okay with the comparison trap because, one, I'm secure in who I am.
[00:06:09] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Jesus.
[00:06:10] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: But two, I like a challenge.
[00:06:12] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: There's camps out there. I won't mention them by name, but there's camps out there that I love.
I mean, I covet them. I mean, they're doing things that we can never do because that's not who we are.
[00:06:24] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: But when you know who you are, I can look at those camps and be like, oh, I know how to work that into what we do.
[00:06:31] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: And be even, you know, and be successful. Our terms, our. Our standard of success.
[00:06:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:06:38] Speaker A: You see what I'm saying?
[00:06:38] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: And that's where people need to get to in their life. I. I'm. I love who I am.
[00:06:43] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: I know who I am in Jesus.
[00:06:44] Speaker C: I'll just preach itself right there. We're done with the podcast. Great job. Great.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: There's your nugget for day.
[00:06:50] Speaker C: Yeah, that's good. Yeah.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: Technologies. So there's needs to be a constant improvement towards your technology because these digital kids are coming in looking for some type of eye candy.
[00:06:59] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, sorry.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: Well, j. They shouldn't be coming in looking for eye candy. Should be coming in looking for the word of God.
Come on, man. Come on. How long are we going to stay on that? Because I'm going to go ahead and tell you, if that's you who just said that you're trending downward, you're trending downward. You may not think you're trending downward, but you're trending downward. Because every retreat center, conference center I go to, you have your menus on tv. That's trending upward. You're doing something with technology.
If you walk in a room and it's just a bunch of white lights, you're not doing anything. Not even TV or. Well, Jay, what's the benefit of tv? That's secular. You're actually putting Worship notes and scriptures on the screen so kids can more engaged.
[00:07:41] Speaker C: We want them to write notes down.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: Right?
[00:07:43] Speaker A: And write notes. Come on, man.
[00:07:45] Speaker C: We want to carry.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: I don't know how to spell Ecclesiastes. I can't if it's on the screen. I know how to spell Ecclesiastes in my journal. Yeah, what's wrong with that? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Seriously, what's wrong with that?
[00:07:58] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, like, that's like saying, like, we don't need a lake, you know, I mean, I mean, it's just, you know, all of it is just to break down barriers and to just make things more efficient.
[00:08:08] Speaker A: For the gospel. Yes, for them to hear the gospel.
[00:08:10] Speaker C: That's the bottom line for the gospel.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: That's good for the gospel. Technology. All right, so here we go. Technology should improve so we can expand the gospel.
[00:08:18] Speaker C: That's great. I'm going to write that down.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: Let's do that. Next part of technologies is digital integration. Now, I'm not saying when they go to their cabins that they going to have to have a TV with an Xbox. TV with Xbox. Yeah, exactly. But what about getting some ideas of how much it would cost to make cabin locks more and more rdi? Yeah. Bracelet efficient.
You have people violating people's space.
[00:08:46] Speaker C: The campus directors have to go get the key, unlock the cabins all the time.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Yeah, but even from a safety perspective, some. Some camps can't lock their doors at night.
So if you have a camp with a cabin of 10 girls and guys violate them in the middle of the night by coming and pranking them, when somebody gets hurt, ministry stops.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: You can't minister to that person anymore. Ours camp stores, at what point are we going to actually get cash registers to be able to be more accountable for the funds that are. Are put into the cash register? Yeah, there's digital integration in our. In our camp stores that need to happen.
We use toast, and we're pretty happy with toast here at Crowders Camps. If you have an idea who you guys use and you want you're proud of it, please send it into us podcastrowderscamp.com Send it in. We want to hear it. But there's more digital integration that happens on the front end of camp as well. I know a lot of us use camp softwares, and our camp software, you know, gives the opportunity for somebody to say, hey, do you have any food allergies?
[00:09:46] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: You know, on the front side of campus, had a little Betty walking up to the, you know, to the shelf or the kitchen worker and say, hey, I'm gluten free.
[00:09:54] Speaker C: Avoiding paper waivers.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Avoiding paper wafer waivers. Yeah. Those are digital integrations that if your camp's not trending upward.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:02] Speaker A: You know, maybe you should. Well, j. That costs a lot of money. I didn't want to swallow that pill neither, but I did. And I've seen the benefit. It's like another staff person, I think.
[00:10:11] Speaker C: Also too, like, it allows us to do other things as well.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:15] Speaker C: So, for example, the. The. The locked cabin. You know, right now our process is we have to go get the key, unlock the. Unlock the cabin. Well, if we have, you know, what you're talking about, we don't have to do that anymore. We can actually focus on other things for the ministry.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: But I believe with that, with that RDI technology, and I may be getting it wrong, it might be ri.
I think it's rdi.
[00:10:37] Speaker C: I'm just riding with you.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: But I think with that technology also, you'll be able to register events better. You'll be able to pay for stuff at camp stores. And I'm looking for the right company to come out and invent that. But also maybe even having a. Where you could track bracelet. Two, three, one to Jay Oliver.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: And know exactly where Jay's missing. Where. Where the crap's Jay.
[00:10:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:58] Speaker A: Jay's down at the volleyball court taking a nap. Yeah. You know.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: That type of thing. All right, let's move on. That's number one. So we're going to break these down per week going after this, but I'm really looking for a lot of you camp girls and camp guys to kind of give us. What do you think?
Because we definitely don't have the mind power here to bring in all the. All these details, but if we can get five or six camps to kind of chime in, we can probably come up with some pretty good ideas so we can all be growing towards that 10 year plan. So number one is technology and digital integration. Number two, cultural and generation shifts. When we say cultural and generation shifts, they're coming with higher anxiety, shorter attention spans, less outdoor experience.
Camps will be havens of peace and joy, teaching students how to slow down, rest, and rediscover wonder. Yeah. So how. How can we better prepare for this? High anxiety, shorter attention spans, and less outdoor experience. Campers that are going to come in 10 years. I'm not going to really start answering that right now.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: But I'm throwing it out there. What do you think?
Come on, podcast.
[00:12:03] Speaker C: Get the brains moving.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: Yeah. What do you think? How can we make A cultural and generation shift to be relevant and superior and ready for these campers to get on campus that are have extremely high anxieties, shorter attention spans and less outdoor experience. What's that, honey? That's a yellow jacket.
[00:12:23] Speaker C: Yeah, I know we're not going to go into much, but I'm thinking about a swim test. I mean, like, not as much outdoor experience, you know, just life cards.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:33] Speaker C: Ready.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: You know what I'm saying? Instead of talking about all these new things that are going to be here in camp ministry in 10 years, let's talk about the things that need to return.
[00:12:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: Maybe camps need to start to giving some swim lessons. Yeah. That's because less and less kids are going to know how to swim.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: Right?
[00:12:46] Speaker C: Yeah, man, that's crazy. That's it. Just think about that.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: Just now, are our speakers going to go from a 30 minute block down to 10 because attention spans. Yeah. Are we going to have to be more creative and bring more creative aspects into our services to relay the gospel? Like dramas.
[00:13:03] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: You know, drama and stuff like that used to come in for these short attention spans and less outdoor education experience is a blessing to us because it's like, oh, I've never done that before.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: You know, so technically that's a negative and a positive all at the same time.
[00:13:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: Because we can, we can see how that will connect with all these kids. Number three, discipleship and formation.
[00:13:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: Great Commission camps will grow while non commissioned camps will not.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Biblical literacy is going to keep on increasing or declining.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Right?
[00:13:40] Speaker A: Yeah. In culture, camps will serve as the frontline classroom of faith beyond the church.
So scripture will be taught with not just words, but through immersive live experiences. As in going through camp all day long, meeting a camp counselor that you have a crush on or hero crush on. You're like, hey, I want to be like them. Well, what makes you want to be like them? Because they love Jesus. Yeah.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: And they're probably not going to see. Campers aren't going to see that outside of their own local church and camp.
[00:14:09] Speaker C: I think that will push us to do more intentional programming of talking about Jesus outside of the barn more. And I mean, I know we're already doing that now, but pushing it more of even at the giant swing, you know? You know, we're pushing Jesus. Like all of us are just wanting to teach Jesus as much as possible, even in the lodge.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's going to come back on you on number four, but let me finish this one.
I Love the fact on discipline, on discipleship and formation. It says right here that there's going to be a shift from one time emotional highs to lifelong spiritual habits like spiritual disciplines like prayer, worship, service, being in biblical community.
So camps would need to. If this is right. I'm just saying I don't write the mail, I just deliver it.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:01] Speaker A: If this is true, then basically camps, we need to focus on those spiritual disciplines more now than ever before and forget all this fluff stuff.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:10] Speaker A: They hear Jesus died and rose again almost every single Sunday and Wednesday night they go to church. So now we need to focus on the discipleship disciplines so that we.
[00:15:20] Speaker C: They got to live it out.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: They got to learn to live it out. But see, here's what's happening. Churches aren't teaching that as like a concentrated, you know what I'm saying? It's blips.
[00:15:33] Speaker C: It's like part of, it's like part of the sermon, like in like, like a two minute clip.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: It's so small blips that they don't get it. When you come to camp and you have this huge spiritual discipline focus, it can really be the catalyst.
[00:15:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: To helping kids get on board to walk with him daily.
Walk with Jesus daily. All right, number four, I'm going to get you that. Okay. Smack you back. Oh, staffing and leadership development. Oh, ok.
Summer staff recruiting is going to become more difficult areas.
Camps are going to have to adapt to residency programs, internships and deeper partnerships with churches and universities.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Wow. Yeah, we're seeing that now.
[00:16:13] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm not going to lie.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: Yeah, we're seeing that now. And all you camps out there that get 100, 150 summer staffers, man, I bow to you. Yeah.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: Great job, guys.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: Well, I don't know how you do it.
You must be giving away some serious free chick. Chick fil A. Yeah.
I don't know how you do it. And I think a lot of our, our problem is we're not, we're not totally full with individuals like some of you guys.
So you're seeing kids graduate out of your program and want to come back. We're more group based at Crowders camp, so we're having more of a harder time with summer staff. But I promise you, probably one out of two camps that are listening to this probably can say, yeah, we struggle with recruiting staff too. So check this out. It says we're going to have to adapt more to Regency. Say that word for me.
[00:16:57] Speaker C: Residency.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Residency programs, internships and deeper partnerships with churches and university. We're already seeing the deeper partnership with universities and churches. We have Gardner Webb University near us. That's the one college we really want to target on our summer staff because we're close and they know us and, and if we're close to them, they probably live close to us.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:18] Speaker A: For sure. You know what I'm saying?
Three or four hours anyway. But also our intern program, Camp Leadership University, we have some of the best year year round interns here and we are really seeing the fruit of them paying off, being developed as young men, young women. So we're seeing that. And they were kind of the backbone, the leaders of our summer staff this summer. They were. They did amazing job.
And also partnership with churches. We have two churches that we're looking to make partnerships with to go to their college ministries because they are. Huh. Great church. They're great church. There's college ministries are booming. One's near Gardner Webb, one's near UNC Greensboro. And they are just absolutely killing it. So why will we go set up a booth and have 10 people come to it when we could have 50 come to it at their gallery?
[00:18:04] Speaker C: And they love Jesus.
[00:18:05] Speaker A: And they love Jesus. Yes, we know they love Jesus.
So that's how we're adapting.
Not just 10 years from now, but right now we're trying to make those. So we're, we're a little ahead of the, the plank.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: Without jumping off because we're making some shifts. But as you're listening to this or do you need to make shifts. Number five facilities and experiences. Families are going to have higher standards. Air conditioning and cabins, modern medical facilities. We talked about that in episode one and safe environments programming will expand beyond traditional summer camps to year round use family camps, sports, arts and initiatives, school retreats and, and pop up camps. Some of you guys are doing pop up camps. You're going to churches right now doing camps.
[00:18:49] Speaker C: Very unique thing. Really cool. I love seeing those.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And some of you, I'm really shocked on how you're able to pull those off.
[00:18:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: Because I know you got a guarantee of how many kids need to be there and I'm surprised most churches are signing those. But I'm more power to you. We're not, we're not in the position nor do we have a vision.
[00:19:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: You know, to do pop up cast. We talked about it. We have, but we just didn't, we didn't have that.
[00:19:10] Speaker C: It's not the time yet.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: It's just not the time. If it is ever the time.
[00:19:13] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: You know, Andy Stanley said this about 15 years ago, he said, partner, don't pioneer.
You know, on pop up camps. I would say, hey, I'd rather partner than start it from scratch. Because My vision is three camps before building. Three camps before I'm 60 and I got 11 years to go.
[00:19:29] Speaker C: You're doing great.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: And right now we're building number two. So one more to go. So that's how we're going to reach 30,000 campers per year.
[00:19:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:36] Speaker A: You know, so pop ups definitely aren't anything. Number six, financial sustainability.
Rising costs of staffing, insurance and property will require innovative fund models. Camp will blend mission with sustainability by serving churches, schools and organizations year round. A lot of us are doing that right now, but can we grow?
Is there more schools that we can reach into?
Last one, Mission and Gospel impact. Ten years from now, countless students will say, I met Jesus at summer camp.
The difference is going to be, are they going to have their kids attend summer camp?
So thriving camps will partner closely with local churches to ensure students and discipleship are happening long after the campfire fades.
One idea I have is a camp tour. Bring camp to the church, you know, every year to us taking the time to go to some key churches. Invite all of our churches that go to camps to that church and do more of a camp tour where we bring our tribal stuff. Yeah, And a little camp personalities there and just kind of hang out with them. I think that would be cool. So here's your seven categories, friends, and I need you guys to chime in. Go to our Instagram account at the camp guys or go to your email podcast at camp.
Got CrowdersCamps.com Sorry about that. No, no, harder. No, no. Carter dropped his head. Sorry, camp guys. I know. Email
[email protected] actually, Noah Carter will be answering that email. He's the man. But here's the thing. Number one, technology and digital integration. Number two, cultural on generational shifts. Number three, discipleship and formation. Number four, staffing and leadership development. Number five, facilities and experience. Number six, financial stability. Number seven, mission and gospel impact. You got another category you want to add to it? Hit me up, because I'm all about being a resource. And plus, I'm really curious, what's camp ministry going to look like? What if in, in 2025, we can nail it on the head? All of us camp leaders, not just us in this, on this podcast, but everybody joining in together, we can nail this thing on the head. Unity we need. Yeah, unity. We need to prepare for 2035. Yeah, for sure, man. I'm sure your board will be proud of you. Your campers are going to love you even more because you're moving toward trending up on things that they care about. And I think it'd be an awesome experience. So sure. Thank you guys for participating with us today. Check out the next episode as we're going to start diving into each one of these individually and you'll get our ideas of what camp ministry is going to look like in 10 years. But we want to include yours, so make sure you chime in. God bless you guys. Have a camp day.
Sam.
