[00:00:31] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome back to the camp guys podcast. I'm Jay Oliver, exec director. Here at my table again, we have Noah Oliver. What's up, everybody? Director of experience. And we have B. Hicks.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Hello. Hello.
[00:00:47] Speaker A: Creative director here at Crowders Camps. Today is going to be controversial. Oh, boy, here we go.
[00:00:52] Speaker C: We love this stuff.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: I'm telling you, stay subscribed, please. That this could go either way. But what is camp?
[00:01:01] Speaker C: What is a camp?
[00:01:01] Speaker A: Let me set some standards up. We have people going to rent places, conference centers, colleges, and they call themselves a camp and they're doing really well. Sold out weeks, etc. Etc. But then you have camps that have been around for 50, 60 years. Same place, bump beds.
No, no, no. College staff.
What is the definition of a camp? Now if you go to Wikipedia or Google, it's going to say something about. Something about like a simile of people.
But is it fair? I'm going to ask y'all this question. Let me just be devil's advocate for a second. Is it fair for the camps that have to run year round facilities and truly offer that traditional value of camp, the way everybody kind of grew up knowing.
[00:01:54] Speaker C: Right.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: To be in competition with somebody else saying they're blank. Camp. Let's just use.
Let's use the fake name. Gospel camp.
[00:02:04] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a great name. Great camp.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: Gospel camp.
[00:02:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: Hey, come your gospel camp out here listening.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Yeah, we're sorry, we have to fact check. Check that. Google it. Come to gospel camp at Isothermal Community College this summer. We're running five weeks.
[00:02:18] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: All right, so you got camps like Crowders Camps who pay the power bill 12 months out of the year if a tree falls, it's our responsibility.
[00:02:26] Speaker C: Take care of the tree.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: We're running everything, cutting the grass, water line, bus. It's our responsibility.
[00:02:33] Speaker C: The thing that we're doing full time.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Deal, running retreats year round. Camp don't stop. Yeah, that's one of our mottos here, man. Camp don't stop.
[00:02:40] Speaker C: January through December, we're going.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: We're going. And you listening? You probably. You're one of the two. Either you like my podcast and so. But you run a camp conference, so you rent another place like a college or some type of place that has housing in a meeting area. And dining.
We run our own dining. Right, right year round. What do you guys would say?
What's the definition? I mean, is there a difference? Should there be a difference?
[00:03:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I mean, from the.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: Spiritual advancement of the gospel.
[00:03:12] Speaker C: It's the same thing.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: It's the same thing.
[00:03:13] Speaker C: Right.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: But is it, is it truly fair? And that's just a question. I don't have an answer yet. Is it truly fair to say, hey, we're blank camp, but you do not even own your own facility.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: Yeah, it should. Whenever you're having to do your full time thing, focusing on trees, hitting your cabins, that, that kind of thing, that is a camp. But whenever you're renting out, you know, a facility like a college or, you know, like you said, isothermal, that is a conference. And with that, you know, you're just renting out the particular area.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:45] Speaker C: For those two months or a couple weeks.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: To me. To me, B. What do you think?
[00:03:50] Speaker B: I mean, I think both have their benefits. I think something that I can think of is we can run year round because we are on camp when, if you do like a college or retreat center, they need that the rest of the year.
And with that, there's like limitations of like what you could do at that camp because you have to go around the regular regulations and guidelines of like wherever you rent it out.
Whereas at camp we can do whatever we want. Yeah, pretty much. But I mean. Yeah, I think, as you were saying, I think it is more of a conference feel when you do the rent out, which isn't a bad thing.
[00:04:24] Speaker C: No, absolutely not.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: I think they benefit people to get saved.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: Yeah. I think the benefit to the conference style actually is like, I feel like you could. The capacity is a lot bigger. You could. Because you are running out of college, you are renting out this like a thousand seat auditorium area.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, camp conference can do six weeks and do. And have the same amount that we have all summer.
[00:04:50] Speaker C: Right. For sure.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: You know, and it takes us what, 12, 11 weeks to hit 6,000 in our summer when they can do six weeks and have 6,000. Yeah. So that is a benefit for camp conferences to me. I guess. I'm. I'm guessing I went back in time and some of you watched Parent Trap, the movie. There's something about a location, something about the experience of tradition, like always going to that same camp. You know, some youth pastors, I call them travel agent youth pastors, where they got to go somewhere different every single year. And then there's some people that just really believe in what the program you offer and they see it as a tradition. Hey, this is our tradition to come to Crowders camps or Blank Blank Lodge, you know, or wherever it is. And there's a little bit of me, the reason why I bring up this question is because there's a little Bit of honor in being able to run your own camp.
[00:05:44] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: And for those guys that check out the last day of camp, they write a check for housing, they write a check for food, they pay their summer staff and then they're done. They walk away from the campus, don't have to return. They're making sure they have contracts, you know, for the next year because if not, they got to change locations. To me, you know, there's a little bit of honor saying, hey, we are a real camp. Whenever the other ones, they should probably say, hey, we're gospel conference.
[00:06:12] Speaker C: Right.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: We're four night, five day gospel conference. Like a camp, but at a college campus, I guess. Respect. Yeah. And I'm not being argumentive here.
[00:06:26] Speaker C: Oh, no.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: But there's something about that traditional camp location because check this out, I'm driving through Boone, North Carolina, and I remember that we used to use the conference center up on top of the mountain there to do our ski summits. I've even Blowing Rock assembly grounds. Shout out, Blowing Rock Assembly Grounds. It's way up there on top of Blowing Rock Mountain. I got some great memories there. I got some bad memories there too. But it's actually a physical location.
[00:06:53] Speaker C: Right.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: You know, they run camps there. It's a camp, it's an assemblies ground, the same thing. It's not a college campus. They rent out groups year round. And you can drop by there at any point. Garden of Webb University, you can do the same thing there. You can go down to the fountain or the pond or the clock and say, hey, I had a great, amazing. This is where I got saved. You could do too. But at the same time, you don't have a, you know, 4,000 students walking around you, you know, you have the privacy of a camp. So go ahead.
[00:07:23] Speaker C: Like back in the day when we had ecamps, you know, that, you know, we had the hotel, we had the, you know, the conference room, you know, E camps. That wasn't a camp, you know, because we didn't have it, you know, you know, January through December, it's not our own.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:39] Speaker C: You know, E camps, you know, was a conference.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: Maybe that's one reason why I struggle with it so much because I've done both.
[00:07:45] Speaker C: Exact. So tell us, what do you think?
[00:07:49] Speaker A: Started out as a conference, right?
[00:07:51] Speaker C: Yeah. But you now, you now know what's up because you've had this for 11 years.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm wondering if that's the reason why I feel so much dishonor and disrespect because you got us that went down to the beach. We ran camps for four to five weeks, and we loaded the Penske truck, headed back to the house, started rebranding the website for the next year. As long as we had the contracts from the hotel. Good.
[00:08:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:19] Speaker A: But now being in the position of running our own camp year round, now know what's.
[00:08:25] Speaker C: What's up.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: So much respect, Right?
[00:08:27] Speaker C: For sure.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: So much respect for those guys.
Jimmy, who's been an executive director for probably 35, 40 years, you know, John down in Georgia, who's been there for 25 years, started, you know, the camp from scratch.
[00:08:41] Speaker C: Deep respect for.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: Deep respect.
And it's. And you see here's another issue. You see some of these camp conferences overtaking and literally stomping the regular camps because the regular camps can have the. Have the growth.
[00:08:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: The.
Technically, some of these camp conferences need to go to some of these camps that are falling apart and. And help them build.
[00:09:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: Maybe partner with.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: You know, hey, well, we're running 6,000. You guys only hold 4,000.
Help them build a building.
[00:09:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:09:20] Speaker A: Because if you go and you look at the financials, camp conferences are coming out way better financially than most camps are because there's less bills to pay. So I guess, all in all.
And you got to look at cost, too, some of these camp conferences are only $10 less than we are, you know, or they're $20 more than you guys listening. But yet they don't even have the overhead. You know, they don't even pay the power bill that we have to pay. Or that. Or tree skate when a tree falls, when a hurricane comes through and it's a $4,000 bill, you know, there's no. There's no overhead whatsoever. So I guess where I'm coming from, if you're listening to this and this is going to be part two podcast, we're going to come back to this topic.
[00:10:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: With this. With some different folks at the table to see what they think as well.
[00:10:06] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: But I think where the reason why this subject comes up and I'm kind of soured about it, is because I've found myself. And this literally was a truth revealed to me during this podcast, sitting here right now at this table, that I've done them both. And the respect I have for all you executive directors out there now and founders of these camps is so tremendous. I mean, I just respect you so much now, and maybe you have been in not necessarily competition because it's gospel. Right. It's kingdom. We want everybody to come to know Jesus there's not enough camps in America. Just like there's not enough churches.
[00:10:44] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: I mean there's not enough camps for everybody to go to summer camp.
[00:10:47] Speaker C: Right.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: So we need camp conferences.
[00:10:49] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: It's just, I guess to me the, I've gained in so much respect for some of these leaders that I've met throughout the years.
[00:10:57] Speaker C: It's a 247 thing. Because if you guys don't know, Jay's my father, when I was, you know, him. Yeah.
You know, when I was, you know, younger, you know, I, I'm seeing my dad, have to check the gate. Check, check the check to make sure we got bills, you know, to take care of the camp.
A full time camp from January to December every single year is, it's not, it's a stress. It's a stress. So the respect of, you know, knowing what is a camp and what is a conference. A conference, they can just move on and go, you know, and get ready for the next year.
[00:11:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:35] Speaker C: But you know, a camp, you know, it's a full commitment.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And if you run a camp conference, you could, you could reply into podcastrouscamps.com and say, hey, definition of a campus. It's the assembly of people, blah, blah, it's at a location. That's cool. And that's what Google says because I looked it up, I promise you. Fact check me, I looked it up. But the fact is you got to look at the respect level of what other people do year round with the retreats. I mean we have two groups coming in this weekend.
[00:12:04] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: Right. While you, while camp conferences, they get off at 4 o'clock on Friday and they don't even have to think about the camp again until Monday at 9:00. Whenever we're here on the weekends, helping groups still advance the kingdom of God. So I'm not bitter, by no means. But I believe other camp leaders have had the same question. Because there is a competition out there.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: Just asking the question.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: There is a competition out there and I think that I want to tell you from my point of view, I have so much respect. And what you do as camp leaders, running a full time year round camp and maybe you win right stuff and you don't do big retreats in the winter. You're still a full time camp. You're out there cutting the grass, redoing the mulch, trimming the hedges, make sure the lake don't rise too high. You know, you're still doing, make sure the pipes don't freeze. Yeah, that's you're still doing all those things. And the camp conference people, they're just handling customer service.
[00:12:58] Speaker C: Right.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: You know, they're, they're taking questions about registration, waiting on deposits to come in, planning programs.
[00:13:05] Speaker C: Right.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: We had to do that. And yeah, I'm, I'm not trying.
[00:13:10] Speaker C: A program is not that hard. It's really, I, I, I, I, I think that way. But you know, with that, you know, answer.
[00:13:18] Speaker A: Yeah. It's easier for some people than it is for the others. Right. To create a program.
[00:13:23] Speaker C: Right.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: But I also think you can see that in evidence of the, of the product.
[00:13:27] Speaker C: Right.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: As well.
[00:13:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: So not bitter. But I want to bring up the question, what is a camp to you? How do you feel about this? Camp leaders, email
[email protected] Tell me, Jay, I'm right there with you. Or Jay. No, I'm not now listening, Listen, don't go spiritual on me. I'm all about people coming to know Jesus again. There's not enough camps in America for every kid to be able to go to camp this summer. There's just not. Same thing with churches. Everybody's like, why are you planting a church? There's not enough churches. If everybody decided to go to church Sunday, there's not enough churches. Everybody had to be outdoors.
[00:14:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: All right, so this is not about the kingdom. This is, I mean, we want the kingdom to advance. This is about respect.
[00:14:10] Speaker C: Right.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: You know, and I understand the word campus is vague. It is a simile of different people at a location. I understand that. But guys, I'm telling you from somebody has done both camp conferences for 10 years. I did camp conferences.
[00:14:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: And then I managed a year round camps. Not a camp, but camps. Now, the respect level for Those that are 100% day in, day out in real camp ministry, not camp, conference ministry. We're all in ministry together. But my heart, man, just says, props to you, bro. Great job is tough.
There's some days that I go home and I'm just still pumped as a skunk to come back to work the next day. And then there's one day a year where I'm like, man, I'm so tired. But I love what I do. And one thing that I think has really helped me throughout the years, and this might be for you, that feel defeated right now in camp ministry is I always end my day with doing things I love about camp.
[00:15:16] Speaker C: That's a good one.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: A lot of times I end up in a bobcat excavator at the end of the day because I'm a developer. That's what I do at camp. I develop because I'm. I'm. I'm the visionary. And I always, in my day of doing things I love to do, I never go home after doing QuickBooks or, you know, or something I don't like to do. I'm going home happy. Yeah. So tell me what you think. If you've never said a word or asked a single question on this podcast, I beseech you there for my brother. I want to know what you think.
[00:15:46] Speaker C: Yeah, come on, tell us.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: I want to know what you think. What is a camp? Does camp conferences bother you? And some of that might be a little bit of jealousy as well. You know, they're out there, they're doing better than you, than you are.
How does that affect you? And how's that, how does that make you feel?
Let's talk about it. So this is going to be part two to what is a camp. But I want to. I want to rattle you a little bit today. Do you agree? Do you disagree?
Jay is all about the kingdom. I totally agree with that statement. And I would reply back to your email. I totally agree with that statement. But you talk to the people that have founded. Founded camps, work day in, day out at them and just the respect.
Mo Owens, I think that's his name. He was a founder of a camp that I grew up near. He recently passed away, stayed date. He was debt free. The whole. Not moo ones. OA fish.
[00:16:48] Speaker C: Okay. Okay. Yeah.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: Oh, a fish.
[00:16:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: Great man. His wife's still. Still there. Great man. Stayed debt free the whole entire time.
[00:16:56] Speaker C: Awesome.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: All they do scholarship kids to come to camp there, man. Respect for sure, respect. I mean, these guys have given their lives to a facility, you know, to a mission that's there. It's just incredible. So I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. Controversial, unknown.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: Rattle me. I want to rattle you.
Send us any questions, comments. The podcastrowders with a s campswiths.com Hope you've enjoyed this episode. Tell me what you think. Really want to know. All right, have a great day. God bless you all.
[00:17:29] Speaker B: See.
